Please feel free to add a comment about the Exodus or Suprine's Plans. Comments will be posted after review by our Administrator.
Sun, 05/12/2013 - 22:56
As the Chairman of Suprine Machinery, I'd like to welcome you to our new web site. We want to provide new machines that exceed normal expectations. The Exodus is the first in a series of high-performance road, off-road, and track vehicles we believe will help reinvent transportation. We hope you're as excited about the Exodus as we are. Please tell us what you like about the Exodus, what changes you'd like to see, or anything else you think we should hear.
Monty-FF (not verified)
Wed, 05/29/2013 - 08:49
Good one, I have been riding FF machines with and without Hub Centre Steering since 1983 and even with rather underpowered engines I have been able to run rings round the competition. This is due to the extreme stability under braking, the ability to separate out braking and steering forces, being part of the machine by leaning back on it so body movement does not influence steering etc etc.
My old Yamaha 500 machine used to overtake 3 times as many bikes as overtook me on average. The MoT (yearly government inspection) tester came back form going down his favourite test road and said "that things bloody dangerous, I have just been down that road 10 mph faster than ever before" and that form someone who's workshop is knee deep in weird and wonderful machines he has build over the years is saying something.
On my Guzzi powered one that I hadn't rigged a speedo up on led a friend to think he had just done 60mph on a test drive when it turned out from the tacho he had been doing 80 mph.
Unfortunately I have moved onto tilting 3 wheeled FF's, the Carver one (see my web site). On the Isle of Man during TT week on "Mad Sunday" when the mountain race course is made one way and everyone goes out to show how great they are only 3 bikes got past me the first run over I did, and only 2 the second time.
Keep up the good work.
FF is brilliant, FF with HCS is the best.
You might just need to put some thought into making it a bit prettier with some bodywork or great paint scheme ?
Wed, 05/29/2013 - 14:14
Thanks, Monty, for sharing your valuable experience with us, you provide wonderful testimony about the performance benefits of a recumbent, or “feet-forward” design. We all owe a debt of gratitude to those folks, like you, who have experimented with various designs and have practical experience about what works in the real world. We also agree that center-hub-steering has many benefits for a recumbent mid-engine design. For example, it's one of the few approaches suitable for a two-wheel-drive variant, so it has a central role in what we're working on. For the Exodus, we thought people would prefer the direct feel and control offered by forks, as well as the comfortable ride that results from the increased rake of the forks that nicely absorb road irregularities. Also, the Exodus forks are pretty light and easy to maintain, which helps with both performance and price. Rest assured, we share your thinking and look forward to an opportunity to bring out other types of suspensions and steering mechanisms as we introduce other models.
As for bodywork and paint, yes, we will provide those things in the near future, but we wanted the Exodus 2014 to be more of a “naked bike”, to reveal its construction and make it clear how it was designed and functions. Moreover, we hope that when you see the Exodus in the flesh you'll appreciate our use of raw metal and the sense of machine purpose it provides. Also, as you'll see on our blog in a day or two, we held an impromptu Memorial Day demonstration of the Exodus in Washington, DC. We'll post the reactions of the people who saw the Exodus, many of whom loved its powerful metallic presence.
ribek (not verified)
Mon, 05/20/2013 - 17:40
I understood the term flat four to refer to a horizontally opposed 'boxer' engine. the engine you are using looks like a straight four, horizontally inclined.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:15
You're not alone in asking this question, and you do have a point. We tried to describe the engine configuration as precisely as we could so people could understand how different it is from most motorcycles. If you'd like, you could call the engine a transversely mounted horizontal inline four. If you look at our blog, we've posted a diagram of the Exodus engine.
What makes this all a bit complicated is that these terms do have several accepted definitions. Indeed, typically a flat four is a boxer design, like the old VW and Porsche engines, and that's what comes to mind for most people when they say flat four. However, if you search Wikipedia for "flat engines", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_engine#Notable_flat_engines, it will tell you a couple of conflicting things, but it does say that the term flat four includes horizontal in-line engines, the same engine configuration as in the Exodus. If we've misjudged our audience and if we've left anyone with any confusion, please comment again. Let us conclude by emphasizing that the Exodus has a rare engine configuration that we believe is specially suited to recumbent motorcycle designs, and we just wanted to make sure people know exactly what that configuration is.
Leigh Hateley (not verified)
Wed, 05/29/2013 - 09:34
In motoring circles this has an North south inline 4 cylinder engine laid down on its side. If it was transverse it would have the crankshaft in the same plane as the wheel axles like majority front wheel drive cars eg mini. Once again it seems marketing department has done it wrong yet again!
Wed, 05/29/2013 - 13:55
You, too, make a good point. We agree that the best technical definition of the orientation of an engine should be based on the position of the crankshaft, specifically, a line parallel to its length along the journals. Based on that definition, the engine in the Exodus, indeed, is a “longitudinal” engine. However, the majority of people we've spoken with on this subject asserted the opposite view; in their opinion, the definition of orientation should be based on the position of the cylinders, not the crankshaft; they pointed out that terms like “radial”, “in-line”, “V-8”, “boxer”, etc., all refer to cylinder orientation, and that's what most people think about when engine orientation is mentioned. It's been our goal to make sure people understand the unique design of the Exodus engine, a design in which the horizontal transverse orientation of the cylinders is so special. For those of you who are engineers, we hope you understand our objective and won't be too hard on either our marketing department, or our engineers, for choosing to emphasize the orientation of the cylinders in the Exodus.
DRW (not verified)
Mon, 05/20/2013 - 18:21
The idea is great, the layout does not look promising. Its long, the riding position doesnt look that comfortable (is he stretching to look over the bars?), the windscreen looks like an afterthought, Is that storage space above the engine or the rest of the goodies for the powerplant?
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 12:50
Thanks for thinking through these things. The riding position is actually very comfortable, exactly the same as sitting in a sports car with your arms extended to the steering wheel. You're leaning back at a 20 degree angle, almost perfectly poised to use the controls or just look ahead over the bars without craning your neck. You're certainly not stretched over the bars, but oppositely, the bars and controls are nicely presented before you. This front view of the Exodus shows you what a clear view the rider has. And, this video shows you what the rider sees.
As to the windscreen, we're quite proud of it, it fulfils the "less-is-more" philosophy, it's nearly as effective as a full fairing while being a lightweight and simple piece of Perspex. And, its longitudinal winglets are a big plus in reducing drag.
On the question of storage space, there is space in the center spar between the rider's legs. How this is used depends on what options we'll provide. Some folks think we should offer sound and comm gear, others think that's redundant in the age of smart phones. So, how that space is used depends on the final set of options a buyer selects. There's no room above the engine, that's pretty much packed. We've considered offering a "luggage rack" but don't think most people would want one. However, we have designs for a range of body panels, some of which offer more storage. A couple of people on the team have proposed a "wagon" body, which they claim would be great aerodynamically and give quite a bit of storage over and around the rear wheel. These are some of the decisions we're trying to make right now. What's your preference? How much storage is needed and where do you think we should put it?
Ted Smith (not verified)
Wed, 05/22/2013 - 17:09
You take an old BMW, cut it in half, add some pipes and call this technology. I have a 2003 K1200GT and it is a dinosaur so I know what you have done and what hardware you are using. Please, do something original, and do not pretend to be advancing transportation with this pathetic 'idea' that is a step backwards.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 12:57
Sorry to hear you're not enthusiastic with what we've done. We like the drive train for several reasons. First, it's a great little engine, good specific output, well made, and utterly reliable. And, there's no other engine available with such quality that lends itself so well to a recumbent mid-engine chassis. Now, don't get me wrong, we can improve upon it, we sure can get more power out of it. In addition, we have other drive-trains in mind for future models, after all, we're working on a V-8 dragster. But as part of a radical new design, with so many challenges to address, we think we've hit on the perfect balance of leading edge design with reliable components. If you were to design the perfect power plant and drive train, what would you suggest? Electric?
BH (not verified)
Fri, 10/10/2014 - 02:43
I'd like to applaud you for doing something you wanted to do, and I am a fan of the format. What bothers me most is your site refers to this as a "first", "radical", and "leading edge". This is essentially a reasonable attempt at an old idea, not anything radical in the least. Arnold Wagner's Peraves company has been cranking out Ecomobiles, since the mid 1980s. They trace the lineage of what they call "monotrace" vehicles to the Monotrace brand vehicles sold in the 1920's and the Dalniks of the 1940s. Honestly, comparing a fully enclosed vehicle like an Ecomobile to what you have done shows this to be anything but radical, or ground-breaking, but rather primitive. Primitive has its place, as does simplicity. Building your own vehicle, and selling as many as you can to as many who desire it is a great thing. Just don't claim to have invented anything, done anything radical, or done something new. This false advertising, when the machine is perfectly capable of selling itself, is unnecessary.
Fri, 11/21/2014 - 20:16
Thanks for your thoughts. We agree with you that in many respects Peraves has led the way and we give a tip of the hat to them for successfully bringing the Monotracer to market. However, perhaps you'll reconsider what we've done and how ruthless we've been in applying our engineering philosophy. There are at least three things we've done that haven't been done before, to a great extent because we were inspired by Colin Chapman, the original fouder of Lotus, whose motto was "Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere."
First, we placed the rider as low as possible, about 6" above the ground, in the same position as a Formula 1 driver. That gives us a frontal area that's less than 1/3 the frontal area of the Monotracer, which means less drag, faster acceleration, and higher top speed. It also enables us to significantly reduce mass and provide a great increase in horsepower per pound. Moreover, since our "center of gravity" (CoG) is so low, our handling is amazing.
Second, we created the Exodus as a true mid-engine design, again as in Formula 1. The engine is behind the driver, that's why when you drive the Exodus you feel like you've strapped an engine on your back. A mid-engine design enables a broad improvement in "packaging", so we can provide a "denser" vehicle with improved dynamics. At some point we'd like someone to benchmark an Exodus to a Monotracer on a race track; we're confident we'll do well.
Third, we committed ourselves to developing a true SPV - "Single Person Vehicle." While some folks have criticized us for not providing seating for a passenger, we knew that as with a Formula 1 car, we can provide improvements in performance (handling, acceleration and speed, efficiency, and comfort) that aren't possible with a two-person vehicle. Maybe we'll lose a few sales for those who want to bring along a friend, but we hope we'll make it up for those couples who each will buy their own machine. Additionally, if you read our materials on networked and semi-autonomous operations, perhaps you'll understand why we believe that SPVs will let us reinvent transportation in the same way the "packet" enabled us to reinvent telecommunications.
Finally, please stay tuned, we have more going on in our "skunk works" that we hope to introduce soon.
Mac Saphir (not verified)
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 08:54
Love the concept. Don't love the looks....and look guys even the Swiss, fully enclosed bike also powered by 1st gen BMW K1200 engine did not cost anywhere near what you will initially be asking for these. All I can say is "good luck with that". Seriously.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:03
Thanks, seriously, criticism should help us do better. Why don't you like the looks? The Exodus certainly is different, and some people find it shocking, but we think it's edgy and serious, pure racing elements that are used on the track today. Everybody who's seen it in the flesh says "cool". When you're next to it, you're actually looking down on it, you can see it's pretty sleek and actually quite small. Don't you like the raw metal, or the exoskeleton? Would you prefer more body panels, or an enclosed body?
Yes, some people might consider the Exodus expensive, but we think a lot of people will find it a bargain, that we offer a lot of value for the money. We think we've provided an unbeatable combination of speed, comfort, safety, and practicality that you just can't find in any other machine, at any price. We'd like to get the price down over time, but this is what it will take for us to deliver a high-quality product as quickly as possible.
jim mele (not verified)
Thu, 05/23/2013 - 13:59
How about some video showing how you start up and stop from the supine position? Also show us how difficult or east it is to get into the seat and how you get the vehicle up on the center stand.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:06
Sure, sounds like a good idea. There already is a video you can see that shows start-up: The Exodus starting out for another ride. You just put the Exodus in gear and drive off, the center stand retracts out of the way.
As for getting in and out, while you don't have to be an athlete, it's true that it might be a challenge for some people. However, if you're reasonably agile it's not a problem. You slip your foot over the center spar, put it on the ground, lower yourself into the seat and swing the other leg in. Getting out is similar, pretty much the reverse, swing a leg over and out, push up with the other foot on the ground, and then step out. You can grab onto the exoskeleton to make things easier. We assure you, though, getting in and out isn't much of a problem, especially compared to how good it feels to sit in that bucket seat. Riding the Exodus is much like piloting a small plane, you're seated very comfortably in a reclining seat and you lean into the corners with a controlled and connected feeling.
Victor Puntus (not verified)
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 08:58
Хорошее дело делаете.
Вот тут дизайн:
Это легко адаптировать под одного пилота и на двух колесах.
С наилучшими пожеланиями Пунтус Виктор.
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 13:31
Thanks for your comment. We hope we've translated your Russian accurately, we think you're congratulating us for our work and providing a couple of links to some other interesting designs. Isn't it great what the human imagination can come up with? We especially like the tilting front wheels, which Mercedes and others have experimented with, as well as the arched roof-line. We think that's further testimony to the inherent value of having a cycle configuration be at the heart of an "SPV" design. The only thing we might argue against is the need for two front wheels, which significantly increase weight and drag. We hope the Exodus will help prove that two inline wheels offer major advantages in the real world and that stopping and low-speed stability can be assured in other ways.
B MCNUTT - FLORIDA (not verified)
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 16:53
JUST WHEN I THOUGHT I WOULD NEVER WANT ANOTHER MOTORCYCLE, THAT NOTHING COULD EXCITE ME ANYMORE, YOU GUYS GO AND DO THIS! I AM ALREADY SAVING FOR THIS THING AND ONE DAY, I WILL HAVE ONE! MAKE THAT I MUST HAVE ONE! CANT WAIT TO SEE WHAT OTHER MODELS YOU COME OUT WITH AND THE TECHNOLOGY THAT FOLLOWS! CUDOS FOR BEING BRAVE ENOUGH TO FLY IN THE FACE OF THE STATUS QUO! ITS AN IDEA WHOS TIME HAS COME! bb
Fri, 05/24/2013 - 21:02
Thanks, that kind of encouragement helps a lot. In turn, we wish you the best in saving enough to get an Exodus some day, and we hope that's sooner rather than later. We're going to do our best to bring down the price over time, or bring out other designs that are less expensive but offer the same kinds of excitement.
Gary Noyes (not verified)
Sun, 07/28/2013 - 11:25
Promote Exodus with demo races, particularly at IndyCar and NASCAR events. Use standard Exodus on street courses and short ovals, and Exodus G on long ovals and road courses. If enough buyers want to race, form Exodus Racing League, get TV coverage, create a new sport!
BTW, Exodus lean angle is limited by width of flat four engine; max lean angle would be possible with a V-4 motor. Should provide highest two-wheel-vehicle cornering speeds physically possible. With turbo V-8 motor, would also be the fastest in the world, due to low drag.
Sun, 07/28/2013 - 15:26
Thanks, Gary, these are all great ideas, very much in line with our thinking as well. We know it wouldn't be fair to have recumbent bikes race against normal bikes, so we're eager to help establish separate racing categories. Also, we've talked with some athletes who think their teams should buy a batch of machines for cross-training, so they can compete against each other on the track without risking their careers.
As for other engines, you make a good point. While the BMW "brick" might be a bit wider than some other engines, it is pretty low (even though we considered converting it to dry-sump to make it even lower), so there are some trade-offs here. We've built several prototypes with other engines, including a V-twin that was rotated 90 degrees, so we agree a V-4 has great potential. As for a turbo V-8 verson, you're absolutely right, it would amazing, and we have a couple of designs we've been working on. We're now looking for the right commercial sponsors so we can build one (although it might be blown instead of being a turbo).
thomas lewis (not verified)
Wed, 10/02/2013 - 13:45
Enclosed motorcycles ,narrow tilters are the future,but better body designs,like BMW's concept tilter the Simple will have to be built.The Simple body could be applied to any chassis.It offer's a traffic friendly ride height,easy entry and exit,very low CD 0.16 and good crash protection,versa none for a standard motorcycle.A very narrow 4 wheeled,tilting chassis,using weight shift could be the holy grail of vehicles,4 contact patches,4 brakes,stands by itself,no gyros, outriggers,feet to hold it upright at stops and it puts back the fun in driving,taking trips.Keep pushing forward,all the best.
Tue, 10/15/2013 - 16:45
Thanks, Thomas, for your well thought through comments on the BMW Simple, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd0qstZEfgo. This machine nicely carries on BMW's prior efforts with its C1 (scooter with a roll cage), http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZLxqyN-oUw, and Clever, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZeUKNxemVE. We did a limited disclosure for BMW several years ago and have a hunch we influenced their thinking.
The Simple certainly does reinforce our concept of the SPV - Single Person Vehicle, http://www.suprine.com/node/3. We expect future SPVs will further improve on the same performance features we've accomplished - speed, handling, efficiency, safety, and personal comfort. It's also interesting to see that the Simple relies on similar structural elements as we do, especially the sloped front exo-skeleton elements and their front forks. Of course, since we place the rider even lower than they do, we get better all-around performance.
If there's anything we might argue against it's the need for two wheels in the rear. We think only one is preferable, especially since two wheels add weight and additional road friction, as well as additional frontal area. We agree that gyros shouldn't be necessary, or, that is, only gyro sensors are needed but not heavy gyro stabilizers. BMW also used large outriggers on their Simple (no doubt for safety during testing) but small ones work well at low speed. However, while we'll probably offer stabilizer wheels in the near future, we're working on a completely different concept for low speed stability that doesn't need either stabilizer wheels or heavy gyros. Our design is very light and practical, so please stay tuned for future announcements.
geffs (not verified)
Fri, 01/03/2014 - 04:09
I would like to appreciate the admin for the space to share and view some of the modern bike design and construction. I was wondering whether the super structure and ultra modern bike design will be both aerodynamic and cost and material effective. Thanks for the comments and vital information. Please suggest my query.microsoft-chat.com
Mon, 01/06/2014 - 15:12
Thanks, sounds like we're interested in the same questions. As to whether our "design will be both aerodynamic and cost and material effective", we believe the answer is a resounding "Yes!". Even now, without an enclosed body, the Exodus easily gets astounding gas mileage of more than 80mpg, and we've even nudged it over 90mpg with some tweaking (e.g., very high pressure in the tires) and careful driving. Our tests with several partial bodies and prototype full bodies, and our computer modeling efforts, suggest we could get over 200mpg with a smaller engine, and probably much more, although we will have lower acceleration rates and a lower top speed.
As to cost and material effectiveness, the tubular steel frame is quite cost effective on both a materials and manufacturing basis. Nonetheless, how effective our designs might be ultimately will depend on the volume of production and sales we can accomplish. The more we sell the lower our price will be. Of course, we've been looking into other designs, including carbon fibre tubs, aluminum space frames, and pressed steel and aluminum monocoque chassis. We concluded those were too expensive for our first model. Nonetheless, we do expect each alternative might be suitable for other models with different purposes. For example, we're working on an off-road version with military applications. For such a product, where ultimate performance can trump normal cost/benefit ratios, carbon fibre can make sense. However, for such models, we're also looking into armor, which throws all such calculations out the window. Please stay tuned as we finalize the design of the Exodus, both in "naked" and enclosed forms, and announce our next models.
whitfield.dan@g... (not verified)
Sat, 01/11/2014 - 09:00
Having ridden the Swiss ECOMOBILE motorcycle, (no longer available) which has a very similar design to your Exodus, I can say with absolute certainty that a much steeper front fork steering head angle will result in much improved cornering and stability. This is based on over 100K miles ridden in that configuration on USA highways including coast to coast run. My experience is backed by 40 years as M/C tecch including 2 years as H-D factory test track rider at York PA final assembly plant.
Keep on the great work! It is a very tough road to perfection, but the benefits are huge! Dan Whitfield
Fri, 01/17/2014 - 14:32
Thanks for your kind words and informed advice. We'd like to get you on an Exodus and see what you think about its handling.
We were faced with several contradictory results when we experimented with the steering head angle, and actually are thinking about making some changes before the first sales versions go out the door. However, this hasn't been an easy decision for us. At high speeds, the current steering head angle seems to work very well according to our test riders. The Exodus is quite stable at speed, and our riders think it's more stable than a more vertical rake. It also provides for a very smooth ride since it absorbs bumps quite well by compressing laterally as well as vertically. But, as you might guess, things are different at low speeds. However, if the rider is experienced and daring, and capable of executing extreme maneuvers, such as breaking loose the rear end, the rake doesn't seem to be a big problem but actually offers quite rapid turns through enhanced toe-in.
However, the current rake can be tricky for the novice rider, especially at low speeds. We've been experimenting with micro-outrigger wheels, somewhat like what the Ecomobile has, but much, much smaller and with embedded intelligence. They make up for some problems at low speed, so we're still trying to decide what's the optimal solution.
Please stay tuned, we very much welcome advice like yours.
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